Part 2: MURDER WAS THE CASE THAT THEY GAVE ME
HIP-HOP VS. HIP-HOP – (Part 2)
Some say Hip-Hop is Dead, some say it’s definitely not, some say it doesn’t matter, let it go. Nonetheless, everyone feels strongly in whatever their stance is. Whatever side you stand firmly on, the first step in uniting as a Hip-Hop Community may just be to understand each other’s opinions. I gave you Part 1: The Prosecution: “Hip-Hop is Dead”, so now I flip the script completely with Part 2: The Defense: “Hip-Hop is Alive”. You be the judge…
Disclaimer: If extreme and poignant statements typically cause discomfort, once again, consider this your warning.
Written By Nicole Camack aka K-Mack
If you missed it, catch Part 1: the Prosecutor’s Arguments that “Hip Hop is Dead” here: < http://realtalkny.uproxx.com/2007/10/topic/topic/editorial/murder-was-the-case-that-they-gave-me-part-i-of-ii/>
Court’s back in session; I now present the Defense:
DEFENSE’S ARGUMENT FOR “HIP-HOP IS ALIVE”:
Don’t be fooled. The Prosecution wants you to believe beyond reasonable doubt that Hip-Hop is dead, when it’s not. The truth of the matter is that the prosecution has no idea what Hip-Hop is in the first place to say that she’s dead. Yes, legends are dead: Tupac since 1996, Biggie since 1997; yes, others are out the game; yes, shifts have taken place in the type and style of music over the decades. However, Hip-Hop remains the Mother Earth, the soil that nourishes and cultivates music spawn from her realm, whether it be the most intricate flower, the rose that grew from concrete, or the simplest weed. Music is different than it was in the 70s and 80s – I don’t dispute that. I ask you though, what is the same? Music is only ONE element of Hip-Hop. Rap Music and Hip-Hop are not interchangeable. And yes, Hip-Hop is a culture, a movement, standing up for what you believe and verbalizing it in an innovative way. Many including myself marched in Jena, Louisiana a few weeks ago … was that not Hip-Hop?
Hip-Hop is a lot like history – there are a lot of different sides. Just because all of them are not readily available and presented to you on a platter does not mean the whole story is not out there. Whoever said that a Common, Talib or Lupe (or whomever you deem as a true artist) album was hard to acquire? Are they not located in the same stores as the other albums? Before you ask why these artists don’t sell as well, please inform me, did you buy the album? Are you helping promote them? Did you support the artists? Are you calling the radio stations or going up to the DJs in the clubs and asking them to play the songs? The moral of this story is, if you are going to be Hip-Hop then great, BE HIP-HOP, don’t be a HIP-ocrite.
Now, back to the lecture at hand, Hip-Hop is not dead, it’s just changed, broadened, grown up (which is not to be confused with matured). The Prosecutor has stated that everyone played a role in Hip-Hop’s alleged death due to the choices that they made. What he failed to state or clarify was that if you still have choices (which we do in Hip-Hop), then she can’t be dead. Just because there are more options out there doesn’t mean people can’t say no, that actually gives them even more opportunities to say no. The Record Executives can make wiser decisions by broadening their focus away from their pockets, the artists can choose their music, lyrics, and subsequent actions very wisely, the television and radio can play a more diverse group of music, and the fans can always turn off the broadcast media, request something else, or continue to support those whom have been deemed “true Hip-Hop”.
Most importantly, IF Hip-Hop is dead like you say she is, would we even be having this conversation? In your own words you have stated that she’s out there somewhere, which means she’s not dead. As for misogyny, stereotypes, and degradation, what form of entertainment is this not present in? The real question is, is THIS even Hip-Hop?? Let’s say that it is for a moment for the purposes of this argument. Has anyone stopped to think that it might be a sign of the times and a different generation rather than only Hip-Hop? And while we are talking about the mid-late Millennium Generation (born late 80s forward), where are the parents? Because at this point, those being brought up now in this society are being brought up by those who were raised with the original Hip-Hop. What better filter or catalyst for change than them? It’s a different culture now than it was then – this newest generation’s parents grew up in the midst of the Hip-Hop movement in the 70s and early 80s, whereas their parents were brought up amidst the Civil Rights movement– do you see how they could have a different mindset? Know that I emphasize EIGHTIES because we are also having kids younger and younger these days. Some may think Hip-Hop is to blame and is a bad influence on its people, but I ask these narrow minded individuals to open up their brains for a moment and put the entire picture into perspective. This era seems to be brainwashed into thinking that whatever is put in front of them is the most important, popular, or significant thing – do we have minds of our own anymore – because standing up for change, going against the grain for your people, not losing your integrity - that’s Hip-Hop.
These Congressional meetings (such as the one that Bobby Rush is spear-heading) that they hold every few years to ‘analyze the lyrics of Hip-Hop at the time’ are some of the most bias and pointless meetings of all time. (Sidebar: How did Rush get in office? He’s a Democrat … did you vote for him? Because not voting is So NOT Hip-Hop; as a matter of fact, not doing your research and just voting for someone just because they are black, female, or democrat is SO NOT Hip-Hop – we need to work our 12% [of the American population] smarter not harder.) Can the government please use this money and energy to investigate the War that never should have happened, the immense poverty amidst a grandiose budget, the miseducation of the negro. Or better yet, please investigate why the same people that call and run off at the mouth at these meetings have stock in the companies/labels that are producing the music they came to debate in the first place. Explain to me why you think the media helped kill Hip-Hop when it’s the same few people that own all of the networks making the decisions on what to play (and you support it by watching it). Well, if you don’t want to go all the way to the Government, look at BET …
Let me dumb it down for you in case you can’t make the connection. Before you try to make your argument that Hip-Hop is dead, let’s discuss what I call the ‘Fit the Description’ syndrome (aka most things are Hip-Hop): note that everything you see or hear on the mass media is not Hip-Hop – its for the ‘masses’. Just because some black person is on a track or some new song is catchy and popular with a dance on the side doesn’t mean its Hip-Hop music (go back to your own definition you so graciously provided). Therefore, it can’t be dead if it’s not really Hip-Hop anyway right? What you claim is so dead is probably not even Hip-Hop in the first place – maybe your definition is just chopped and screwed up.
Let’s analyze it from the other route: the ‘Sole Soul Survivor’ syndrome (aka nothing’s really Hip-Hop): note that times have changed. Those legends from the 70s, 80s and early 90s can not be the only era that you consider Hip-Hop music. Great Hip-Hop music is timeless, so pull out the tracks, sit back, and reflect, then afterwards notice that times (and music) have changed. They gave us the influence and the inspiration, now it’s up to those in the game now to produce great Hip-Hop music. Just because Rakim is not on the track doesn’t mean it can’t be Hip-Hop.
You say Hip-Hop is dead because there is so much disrespect and lack of consciousness in the music. I say if this is actually Hip-Hop, it could very well be a lack of respect and consciousness in today’s society. Who’s feeding who? If this is what Hip-Hop is reporting now, then maybe, just maybe, that’s our cue to get up, get out, and do something. You counter that there are all these songs in heavy rotation that have a bad influence on the young people. I say, after you analyze whether they are really Hip-Hop or not, please look at album sales and tell me how rotation = support if album sales are at an all-time low? After you do that, tell me how Hip-Hop can be dead if we are not buying or supporting these ‘commercial’ albums? Should we be doing a better job at getting the ‘conscious’ music in the forefront? Maybe. The point is that it Is out there; it still exists, it’s still breathing – life support or not. Let’s be reminded once more that Hip-Hop is a culture and a culture can never die; Hip-Hop music is not limited to Rap music, other genres may also qualify (Neo-Soul, etc); Rap does NOT equal Hip-Hop. If that were the case Hip-Hop would have been shot to death in the late nineties; don’t minimize her like that. However you look at it, Hip-Hop is still alive people, so let’s pull her out of the commercials, tune back into the program at hand and listen to what she’s really trying to tell us right now, why she’s saying it, and what we are going to do as a result. Hip-Hop is NOT dead; she’s making a call for action. On this cusp of a new age Civil Rights movement we need Hip-Hop more than ever, and she needs us. So the next time you hear Hip-Hop calling, whether you deem it a message reminiscent of her old ways or a cry for help, let’s answer her call and help progress and mobilize Hip-Hop again. MY Hip-Hop is alive and well, I don’t know about yours. So the next time you even think she’s gone, start looking for her – she’ll be waiting on the other side of the mirror. Long live Hip-Hop. I rest my case.
Written By Nicole Camack aka K-Mack
KMACKsMyName@gmail.com
So, both sides have went at each other. What’s your verdict for Hip-Hop? You be the judge …
Suggestion Box
October 16th, 2007 at 2:56 am
Unfortunately the masses are being force fed nonsense rap music.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:03 am
Hip hop is dead because the artists have failed to reach new highs lyrically and creatively. Back in the 90s when you went to go buy a rap cd there’s one thing you could expect variety, in today’s rap you just don’t get that.When you listen to current rap it’s always the same concept over and over again. And what’s funny is that when someone asks a current rap artists who influenced them they always mention greats like biggie and pac but their skills come nowhere near to reaching the versatile flows and lyrics of big and pac. It’s almost like everyone said let us not try to be better, let’s just become homo bite each others rhymes make our flows sound like each other and talk about money,bitches and cars til the shit dies.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:48 am
Which is exactly why Kanye is tearing up the charts. He dares to be different. Most of these rappers are only interested in making money. There seems to be no love of the craft. Only a love of money. That is the difference between the old school and the new. Old school was about the love of all things hip hop. Where’s the love?
October 16th, 2007 at 5:15 am
Why are we even arguing about this. The fact that you guys are posing the question makes me laugh. I’m sure you’ll delete this comment or wont even push it through because I’m not backing up your views on this particular article. But the fact is, Hip-Hop doesnt die. A music genre doesnt die. As long as people are fans of it, and keep it alive, as long as artists are hungry to create, it will be here.
It was never in jeopardy, it was never hurting. Imus didn’t hurt hip-hop. He may have hurt the general public’s PERCEPTION of hip-hop, but he didn’t hurt hip-hop. Soulja Boy doesn’t hurt hip-hop, I can’t stand his music, but he doesn’t hurt hip-hop. I don’t even call Soulja Boy or D4L hip-hop, I call that bad rap over a garbage beat. But just because he’s rapping doesn’t make it hip-hop. Just because some labels are caitalizing off the culture and pimping it out for financial gain doesn’t mean its dead.
There are literally tens of thousands of hungry, legitimate artists out there who would kill to be heard. But because a 20 year old A&R doesn’t think they have a catchy enough hook for the suburban white girls, that indie artist won’t get on. Millions of people still love, support and live hip-hop. And they always will. Nothing can kill a genre of music.
You can’t stop love.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:18 am
I dont beleive hip hop is dead…it’s simply gone in a different direction…it might not be the direction that most people want it to go but non the less it has. The whole south movement might not be whats best, however its best to be diplomatic about it. Old school or is similar to it, in a sense that its about the fun….the new dance craze…new dress…new words…a different prospective on things…basically fun rhymes…simple lyirics (just look @ rappers delight-classic).
Things move and it went from the east to west and then south so i know that hip hop is gonna have something or someone new thats gone blow everyones mind again word. For those who say its dead… Patience is a virtue…
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE ITS SIMPLY MY OPINION…
October 16th, 2007 at 6:09 am
hip hop aint dead the mainstream is!! shit 4 all i know
do your research youll find something of substance!
i know that 4 real im the next best thing coming out!!!
Montreal,Toronto,Canada stand the fuck up!!
October 16th, 2007 at 6:14 am
I agree wit u guys & gals. hiphop iz on a new plain & we don’t wanna hear bs. u got money & makin it rain congrats but what about the kids, help them grow. not teach them bout guns, drugs, livin that fast life etc. give it some time & witness the new hiphop(or that old skool) when u gotta show ur really a lyricist.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:16 am
Naah yall got it fucked up. It’s like this, the media outlets plays the wack music to the masses and because of that rappers try do dumb down their lyrics and even their whole attitude so they can release their album and get radio/tv play. I mean TRUST me, ALOT of todays rappers (even SOME ringtone rappers) are infact better than what we’ve heard but they’re basically goin for the money so they have to come out with all the beefs (that dumb wiggas buys), gimmicks, dumb downed lyrics (which basically means chains, cars and bitches). Thats why when you listen to rappers old shit they spat more real shit more shit that showed their real talent but when they get signed to a major u know how it is, they tell them that they have to create an image and rap about the usual things to get airplay.
I mean why do u think alota niggas comes out wit ringtone songs? Cuz they know thats the shit that gets plays so they make a ringtone kinda track to get a smash single, only to get played by the white people on the label that just wants their ringtone money and then you never hear about the em again and their called one hit wonders and whatnot. wheres MIMS?? wheres Dem Frenchize Boyz or whateva their name was, i heard people mentioning a group called D4L or sum, neva heard of em but still where are they?
BUT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE EVERY RINGTONE/MAINSTREAM RAPPER.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:39 am
i need classic albums…..THANK GOD FOR KANYE, COMMON, JAY, NAS, TALIB, LUPE, T.I.,AND LUDA…….THATS IT
October 16th, 2007 at 7:19 am
I think Hip-Hop has been in a bad car accident and still hasnt recovered, The past few years have been so so, due to the ringtone phenomanon, music downloads, ect but im from the birth place of it all (NYC), and from my point of view, its not all the south’s fault as much as some of would like it to be. You got Solja boy, Jibbs, Rich boy, Plies who are all trash even tho we all know every word to their songs ( maybe not Rich Boy or Plies) but to call them not hip-hop would be wrong, because they do have the same intentions as any other rapper, to have a hot song. I think NY is mad cuz its not us thats getting the airplay. TI, Jeezy, Outkast, Scarface, Ludacris, Rick Ross, and LIl Wayne ( only cuz of the Carter before that he was ass) can really rap, but the 1st list of rappers i said make it hard to really embrace the south cuz they get played more then the 2nd list of rappers. Everytime i hear soulja boy i wanna jump out the window, but Hov, Em and Nas are dropping so i think ill wait before i jump. Hip-Hop is just hurt real bad and once its 100% we will know who’s hip-hop and who’s out for a check to buy rims and grills and making it rain on dirty ass scrippers.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:57 am
Hip Hop is alive & will alway’s be alive, it’s just not alway’s going to be on the radio & on TV. As long as I have my classic Hip Hop music from the 80’s 90’s & yes even the 2000’s. The reason people say Hip Hop is dead is because of so much garbage that is coming out these days but you can’t let that overshadow all the great music from the past. There’s still some great music that comes out time to time but it gets overshadowed by the garbage being played on the radio. As long as I have my CD collection & keep my ear out for good music …. HIP HOP IS ALIVE
October 16th, 2007 at 8:07 am
I agree
October 16th, 2007 at 8:09 am
man, this post was too long for me to sit and read.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:31 am
number 8 i feel u
October 16th, 2007 at 8:52 am
hip hop is dead! like i said in my forum, rap is just music. hip hop is a lifestyle reflected in music by music. money and rims and jewelery. doesnt properly represent our everyday lives. although…some would argue that it does. in fact, the media and radio, only cater to kids. whom in turn are the impressionable ones. commercialized rappers and labels are the culprits to blame, for hip hops sudden demise. underground is the new era. it will revive hiphop in a few years. but for its dead very dead!!
October 16th, 2007 at 9:07 am
Beating a dead horse.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:25 am
Hiphop is NOT dead. I still think quality music is being produced – you cant watch MTV and find it though.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:32 am
hip hop got shot, but sum people out there is performing sum major surgery
i’m gettin sick of the negative comments about “soulja boy” and “chicken noodle soup” type songs. they are not killing hiphop, they didnt come out and act like they were the shit, or the nicest. they make fun music for kids. damn cant the kids have sum shit to dance to. the kids cant listen to 50 cent, they cant watch most videos cuz they all feat. strippers. i dont play that music but i’m sure sum parents would love there kids 4yr bday party to have a soulja boy contest or sumthin fun. let them bubble gum artist live
hip hop starting gettin sick when “real” rappers starting pullin bitch ass publicity stunts and starting fake beef and making subpar albums that got hyped from that fake artist. at one time there was so much real shit droppin we used to cop everything.then sumwhere sum bitch type rappers started to creep in, and we kept buyin. they we realized these rappers are robbing us. we fell for the hype and lost the substance. now the substance aint fuckin wit us no more and barely comes out to play. until we show the substance thats what we want, and show the fake hype bullshit they cant live here, hip hop will be dying slowly
October 16th, 2007 at 10:40 am
hip hop is so called dead because the icons aint keep that shit going and allowed people to come in and take they spots.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Hiphop won’t die it just lacking creativity and niggas get lazy and just loving the love of money. Common but out at classic album IMO,aint listened to Talib Kweli CD yet but I finally got ityesterday and from what I heard its a good album. 50 Cent album got good review & Kayne West album is good for every Soulja Boy,Mims,Sean Kingston there are good artists. Hiphop won’t die people have to get that out of their heads niggas just need to work harder and be more creative. Stop sounding the same ….
October 16th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
rap is what rapper sing and do, but hiphop is what hiphop artist live. so by peolpe saying that hiphop is dead your basically calling your ownself dead, cuz hiphop is what ya support and by ya not supporting hiphop that what make it dead. and that the reason why people calling it and think that it dead. which if you think about it in certain cases i do think it dying, but i don’t think it dead yet. but i think the reason why hiphop is dying, cuz there lots of hiphop fans out there who would buy a rap album, before they would buy a hiphop album which is pretty fuck up.but for me when i hear people saying that hiphop is dead, i tell them, then what do you think about rap music. cuz by the way people react to rap music it seem like they pay more good attention, and give more respect and support to rap, then they support hiphop. i mean im so ashame how hip hop fans who would diss hiphop by saying that it dead, i mean i no hiphop wasn’t what it was back in the days. but if people are bumping rap music more then hiphop, and at the same time saying that hiphop is dead. then there obviously a problem with are hiphop fans. and if we keep trashing hiphop by saying it dead, then it only going to get worst instead we should support it. and im sick and tired of hearing that hiphop is dead, especially from the people who don’t support hiphop artist and hiphop itself. i mean people act like it easy to make a hiphop album, when really you have people like common’ talib kwali’ and mos def’. who would put out a hip hop material album on top of that they would express there true life through hiphop, and people still don’t seem to support them. cuz if they did hiphop would of brought in more money in to the hiphop worldthen rap music. but it seem like rap is doing all the work, by bring in money in to hiphop, which is good but it for a wrong reason. being that people are buying in to rap music then hiphop music. like the same people who went to go buy soulja boy’ album lil boosie’ album, and all those other rap albums, and would still say hiphop is dead. knowing that you could of bought common’ or talib kwali’ album, but instead you didn’t then you wonder why hiphop is dead. i mean it seem like people are not making ant sense towards hiphop,they don’t care or support are hiphop artist,but would say that hiphop is dead, but to say that hiphop is dead is wrong especially when you don’t support it, i mean hiphop can’t support itself with out fans. so i think we as hiphop listener should support hiphop and represent it……….hiphop will only live if we support it by supporting are hiphop artist.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
before e say its dead, lets identify wut it is first.hip hop is music..only music , not a lifestyle.. the lifestyle is a reflection of the music. the lifestyle just portrays the most succesful form of the music..if u break the music down further..the music is categorized in gansta rap, political rap,club/party type of rap..romantic/love songs type of rap.. gansta rap is obviously the most popular form of the music..has generated more money, attention and it has influenced the lifestyle more, so much that ppl think that gansta rap is hiphop but its not..gansta rap is now dying obviously its played out and repetetive… before gansta rap there was hip hop and after gansta rap hiphop will live on.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
you have certain hiphop fans who wouldn’t even buy a hiphop album, but then they’ll act like they no what a quality album is, when really they don’t no shit about music’ hiphop’ and lyrics’. then you have some who may have every hiphop album, but still say that hiphop is dead’ and still would buy an hiphop album, which sounds pretty fucks up. i mean in certain cases that shit is supportive, but it also can not be if your also talking shit about hiphop being dead. cuz by being a fan who support hiphop buying the album and shit like that, but saying that hiphop is dead could also not be supportive. cuz at the same time it bring people back from buying an actual hiphop album, and then you have certain dumby who would buy a soulja boy’ album a lil boosie’ album and a mims’ album. and wonder why hiphop is dead, and why hiphop is not selling. then turn around and call there self a hiphop listener. which to me i look at them as rap listener not hiphop listener, and then they would give a dumb excuses to why they would buy a rap album before a hiphop album, and there dumb excuses are that the quality materials from a hiphop album, is not hiphop and is not a quality likable album which is fuck up. cuz to me it seem like rapper have to rap about fake shit in order for fans to like it, but then they wouldn’t mine trashing hiphop and saying that it dead, and then they have the nerve to call thereself real hiphop heads which is a bunch of bullshit. i mean if people really think that some of are hiphop artist, don’t have and show lots of quality music in there album’ in order for the fans to appreicate hiphop music. then i wonder what people get out of rap music, cuz it not like there any quality material in rap muisc. but people still listen to rap more then hiphop, but will still say hiphop is dead which is a shame. i think the most important and true purpose of hiphop is the love and unity that us hiphop fans should show, and support to make hiphop a better state of mind. instaed of saying that hiphop is dead, and i think instead of saying hiphop is dead. we should focus on the cultural skills that these hiphop artist has brought to the game.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
cosign #22 kev ..Well said (clap hands)
October 16th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
number 22, i wouldn’t say that gangsta rap is played out like it the only thing messing up hiphop, but it these fake rapper who act like gangsta, but they never live it. i mean you can be real and hardcore in anything, and in many different way with out being fake. but as long as you show how bad you have live it, to the point where you express it. weather it rap or hiphop people would feed in to it and buy it, especially if your good at it too. i mean look at rapper like 50′ the game’ even shyne pope’ who in jail, when those rapper first brought out there album there album sold mill to mill……so i wouldn’t say gangsta rap is play out, to me it actually the newest form in hiphop that can sell some pretty big unit. not saying that gangsta rap is hiphop but in some cases gangsta rap could be a form of hiphop.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
smh at this argument hip hop is only so called dying cuz nobody is buyin albums if almost every big name rapper was goin at least gold like back in 05 then all this soulja boy,mims,and hurricane chris would be ok…u niggaz is hypocrites i love music hip hop rap and r&b so in my eyes music as a whole will never die until i dont hear it trhu my ears no more…
VITAMIN WATER PEOPLE TRY IT…
October 18th, 2007 at 12:26 am
@ #22 (kev) well stated. I hope so… but I have my doubts.
Watts crackin made the best point to me, you got intelligent rappers dumbing down concepts and lyrics to sell records, they have no values… so they make up what they can simply to sell units not to make an impact like artist before did.
Remember how you felt the 1st time you heard juicy? They don’t make songs about aspiring to something greater any more, you gotta make millions live in the hood and supply coke still… f’in stupid.
Worse though is the 30 yr old new comer t0o the game… smh
nigga you graduated from college why you slinging dime bags?
GET A REAL BUSINESS!